Lego Batman and Two-Face Interview: Shai Matheson and Rich Keeble Talk Taking on the Roles

2 hours ago 3

Published Jul 1, 2026, 6:25 PM EDT

Shane Limbaugh is a Contributor at DualShockers who began covering games professionally in 2025. A longtime gamer with a Bachelor’s Degree in Game Design and Criticism, Shane brings a design-focused perspective to his coverage, looking closely at how mechanics, systems, story, and player experience come together.

Before writing professionally, Shane worked as the Lead Writer and Executive Producer on a college game project for roughly six months. He also spent time working at GameStop, which gave him hands-on familiarity with a wide range of games, platforms, and player preferences.

LEGO Batman: Legacy of the Dark Knight is the newest iteration of the wildly popular series of games. This one seeks to culminate a lot of the famous media into a single game with some very fun portrayals of characters.

I got to sit down and talk with Shai Matheson (Lego Batman) and Rich Keeble (Two-Face) about lending their voices to some of the most iconic characters in cartoons and comics. With such a fantastic open-world game, there was a lot to talk about.

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We got to chatting, and things very quickly became hilarious as their chemistry was incredibly infectious. It was such a fun interview, and both of them deserve all the praise they get.

Interview with Shai Matheson and Rich Keeble

Q. Voice acting and stuff like that isn't particularly new for either of you. Obviously, Mr. Keeble, you've had, you know, your Monoco game of the year. I think this is a little bit different, though. So I was really curious about kind of what it was like stepping into the role of these really iconic characters, the characters that have been around for, oh my God, how long? Like 70, 80 years, something like that, yeah.

Rich Keeble: Well, thank you very much for bringing up Expedition 33. No one ever does. God, I wonder what happened to that game. It just really sort of vanished without a trace. Yes, the difference there, of course, is that it was a brand-new IP and no one was expecting it. And we originated these characters. So you've kind of got carte blanche. Is that the right expression? You can do what you want. But yeah, when you're stepping into something that other people have done, it can be a bit nerve-racking, and you kind of want to be respectful, but also put your own spin on it. I mean, obviously, there's far less pressure on me than there was on Shai.

But I've had a really nice time. I've just really enjoyed getting into the Batman universe, and doing this version of Two-Face, which they had references that they wanted me to hit, but also I think I've pulled in my own research and put it through the Rich Keeble filter, and watching footage of it back. I don't hate it. So I'm pretty pleased.

Shai Matheson: Yeah. It's just the footage you don't hate because the sound is terrible.

Rich Keeble: Oh yeah. I watched it without the sound turned on, obviously.

Shai Matheson: That's fair. I will fully support that. I think Rich did an amazing job. And I think what Rich did, which is so unique to this game and a lot of the performances that were required and Rich did expertly, is to sort of reference the original but not mimic it and make it his own. And so you sort of visually and energetically get Tommy Lee Jones, Batman Forever, Two-Face, but it's a Rich Keeble performance. And I think that's so cool.

Rich Keeble: Well, it's very nice of you, Shai, to use your moment to talk about me there. That was utterly selfless.

Shai Matheson: I know, and it won't happen again. It's only because you started.

Rich Keeble: Well, that's very kind of you. But yeah, you're the same. I mean, you've done an amazing job. Obviously, you're a longtime Batman fan. Well, as we all are, but you're more enthusiastic, I think. I'm not enthusiastic about anything, obviously. But you've done a great job of making this.

Shai Matheson: Thanks for reversing the thing I just did to you, just doing that back at me, Rich.

Rich Keeble: No, I'm enthusiastic about you. That's the thing. Nothing else, only you.

Shai Matheson: We're actually in the same room, by the way. We've just divided it with merch. No, I think my pressure, to be serious for Shane here. My pressure was not my pressure, sort of my challenge. It wasn't really pressure, because I decided to put it aside. But yes, I guess people have more of an expectation of what Batman has to sound like than what Two-Face has to sound like. Or I think the Joker gets quite strict rules that apply to him. But I think the challenge for me was, in a way, to sound nothing like any of the other Batmans. I had to have no references to my Batman, as opposed to pulling an image or a sound from one of the franchises.

So mine had to sort of sound like none of them and all of them at the same time, if that makes sense. And sort of not be associated to any particular story of those stories, so that we can accept a Two-Face from Batman Forever, a Joker from The Dark Knight, and a Joker from Batman 89, and a Catwoman from a little bit of this and a little bit of that. You know what I mean? So my Batman had to sort of receive all of those and therefore be none of the familiar Batmans.

Rich Keeble: You did a great job. You know, it's your Batman. You are Batman.

Shai Matheson: I am now. I am for this point in time. Kevin Conroy, the great, the great, the great that we all sort of compare ourselves to, and none of us compare, make sure that's mentioned. He said in an interview, "We rent the character, we don't own it." So, you know, because everyone probably associates Batman with Kevin Conroy, and he would say, you know, I don't own the part, I rent the part, and I'll do what I do with it, and I'll bring it back. And I think that's such great imagery for, and a great sort of metaphor, or just a great way to look at things.

People have more of an expectation of what Batman has to sound like than what Two-Face has to sound like.

And I definitely feel the same. You know, I had the privilege of renting it out for a little bit, doing something fun with it, telling the story that TT wanted to tell, and then I put it back where it belongs. And if anyone wants to let me rent it again, I'll do it, but it belongs to someone else after me, you know.

Q. That's really great. I really enjoyed both your performances. I know you probably hear that a lot now, but when it first started, I was definitely like, okay, well, who's Batman? And it was you. And I was like, okay, well, I don't know a whole lot about them. So I guess we'll see.

Shai Matheson: Well phrased. I don't have a clue who you are. I don't know who you are. That's totally fine. I'm fully aware of it. That's absolutely fine. That's even nicer in a way.

Q. Yeah, I played it when it came out because, you know, Lego Batman, who's not going to play it? And I definitely remember kind of hearing you, and thinking, that's weird. He sounds like he's like him. He's Batman, but not Batman.

It was like a very weird sort of mix of being very accurate, but also its own thing. So I think you did a great job sort of pulling from everything and making it your own. And on that note, you guys have fed into one of my questions, which I love when this happens because it makes me feel smart, and I don't get to feel like that a lot.

There are a ton of references in the game. Like the game is, it almost feels like every other line is a reference to some form of Batman media of the gajillions that there have been. You guys talked a little bit about it, but how did it feel while you were voicing or revoicing lines, like really famous lines from the big movies or from smaller animated shows? How did that kind of go for both of you?

Shai Matheson: I think it was great. I'll take this one first, Rich, just so that if we keep alternating, we'll keep it fresh. It's amazing, on the one hand, as I'm such a lifelong Batman fan that to get to play in this sandbox is so unbelievable and fun. It genuinely is like going in the sandbox or a playground with your favorite toys, and you go, oh, let me do this, let me do this.

And how about we do this? You know, it's just that feeling. And I got to go in with my favorite toys. Where does he get all those wonderful toys? That's a quote from the film, Batman 89, Rich. Shane knows that one. Good luck transcribing this, Shane, by the way.

I got to go and play with my favorite toys, and so it's just a joy. And then again, going back to which Batman am I? I got to be kind of all of them that, you know, I got to say a line from Michael Keaton. I got to say a line from Christine Bale, a line from Kevin Conroy. But never, almost never mimicking them. I do mimic Christine Bale at some point, but yeah, I completely lost my train of thought there, but you get the gist.

Rich Keeble: You're sort of giving a flavor, aren't you, to the different ones? I suppose it's like you ended with the Joker, you know, a flavor of Jack, a flavor of Heath, et cetera. But yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, Shia did a great job of pulling in from all that. I mean, my main reference when I got the audition for it was the Tommy Lee Jones, Batman Forever, Two-Face. And that was pretty much all they sent me, really.

They wanted me to do a Harvey Dent read as well, but of course, Harvey Dent basically isn't in that film, apart from that little flashback. So yeah, I just sort of did my own research, really, watching bits of The Long Halloween and revisiting The Dark Knight. And pulled in from that, really.

But yeah, it was fun doing lines that are in Batman Forever. And it was really fun doing new Two-Face origin stories related to pies.

Shai Matheson: And pizzas. Well, pizza is a pie. Tell them your Batman Forever linkage, Rich.

Rich Keeble: Oh, well, thank you for setting me up on that, Shia. Because I'm of a certain age, I grew up watching repeats of the Adam West 60s show in the 80s. They used to show them on TV at some point in the UK. So I was very familiar with Batman and, yeah, the Keaton films were a big deal, but it was the Batman Forever film. It was the first Batman film I actually saw at the cinema because I don't know what certificate it was. I can't remember exactly how old I was, but I was old enough to go to the cinema with some friends of mine.

I probably lied to my mother or something, like I was doing quite a lot back then. So yeah, it means quite a lot to me. So to be playing a Two-Face, certainly initially based on the Tommy Lee Jones version, is really cool.

But also the other fun fact is the U2, Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me track, which is a big part of that soundtrack, was one of the first CDs I ever bought because in the early nineties, I was just sort of, we were all copying cassettes and sending them to each other, but a lot of us were getting CD players in the mid-nineties and that was a very exciting thing. So yeah, that's a really cool thing for me.

Shai Matheson: Thank you just for setting me up for this thing, Rich, which is I have the original CD special edition, as you can see, of that very same soundtrack with the very same song and all the songs inside. Now I can't get into this, but it is, oh my God, it needs to rattle. What happened? I think it might've melted in the heat, but yeah, the CD is in there. Oh, there we go. It's still in there, and I can't get to it, but that's from that year. I also bought and played that CD again and again.

Rich Keeble: Yeah, amazing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's a life product.

Q. It is interesting how sort of media of all kinds can sort of stretch and kind of link a lot of people, even over a great distance. I grew up with, I'm a little younger than you guys are. So I grew up with Justice League, like the animated series, and Justice League Unlimited. And I think my first real introduction to Batman was Kevin Conroy's, obviously, with the animated one.

But I think the first movies I watched were probably Michael Keaton's, because my parents are old. And they like, my dad loves, loved the—

Rich Keeble: Probably our age, Shai.

Shai Matheson: Yeah, exactly.

Q. No, no, I think they've got some years on you guys.

Rich Keeble: Oh, they're at least like mid-40s. Can you imagine? Yeah, yeah.

Shai Matheson: Yeah, you've seen every side of the cinema. We killed your story. Go on.

Q. No, I love it. This is great. This is what I live for. I've lost my train of thought.

Rich Keeble: So you're watching the animated — And the Keaton films.

The Different Versions of Batman

Q. So I grew up watching those, and it was always kind of interesting to see everyone's kind of different perspectives on Batman, especially as we got older, and you started kind of branching out from your age group of people who have the same sort of ideologies and understanding as you do. I wasn't a big comic book kid growing up, mostly just because the digital age happened. And yeah, but I have friends who are into comic books.

So you'd always have conversations about kind of like the differences and things like that. And then as you get older, you make other friends, older friends, younger friends, and they all have different ideologies. But it's really impressive to me how it links all of us throughout such a wide demographic of ages and genders and places in the world, all that kind of stuff.

Shai Matheson: Yeah, completely. And I think it does. I mean, I've got a few just out of reach, but I've pulled out some of my old comics from when I was very young, a teenager in fact. But I didn't have any friends who read the comics. And so it was kind of my secret world, and I loved it for that.

Rich Keeble: But I think, yeah, it was just, yeah, Batman is just, you know, even if you've never seen or read a Batman comic, you know, you still know who Batman is, don't you? So, you know. Yeah, it can unite all of us.

And the funny thing is that I never read comics and stuff when I was a teenager, but I've started collecting them now. I bought this one, The Batman: The Long Halloween, because it's got a nice two-faced origin story in that. I've actually recently bought this as well, which is a collection of a recent sort of series of Two-Face comics. And recently, I actually spent quite a lot of money on this. (Rich holds up a copy of Two-Face: A Celebration of 75 Years)

It has a collection of, yeah, many Two-Face comics, even back from the forties, including his first ever appearance. I've been collecting Two-Face Legos. There's a death stroke in there. (Rich is holding a small collection of mini-figures.)

Shai Matheson: It would be great if this were videoed, but go on.

Rich Keeble: You can just say, Rich wastes a lot of time by showing things to the camera. But I'm sort of leaning into it more now. And I'm actually, I did actually manage to download a few of the animated series, so I'm going to try and watch those.

Shai Matheson: It's amazing, isn't it? Because I've, same as you, Rich, like a lot of it, I came into it as a Batman fan, but definitely not a Batman expert. And then I'm so interested in more of it now. You know, I've finished the job. I don't need to do any more research, but I'm so interested in the world. And I kind of went, "Oh, I want to read this. Oh, I want to read that." I've never actually read this. Let me read that. Even though it's got nothing to do with the job anymore, it's just, it's such a rich world.

Rich Keeble: Very good. Thank you for using my name there as an adjective. But yeah, it's a wonderful thing. And actually, to be honest, being in Good Omens and Expedition 33, those sorts of jobs where I've been talking to a lot of fans, actually just really turned me on to, I don't know, being excited about a fandom, because I've been very lucky to go to a lot of fan conventions over the last year or so and meet a lot of Expedition 33 fans.

And it's just so nice to talk about the game and the characters in detail with people. It's just really, yeah. It just makes me want to know more, and I want to be able to talk more about Batman and Two-Face with people. And it's, yeah, it's really excited me.

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Q. Yeah, well, I'm sure anyone would do that. So just be careful who you ask at a convention because that'll be like three hours of your day. That's really awesome though. I definitely agree. God, you guys are so much fun to talk to.

This is a little similar to some stuff we've already talked about because we're kind of talking all over the place, but you've both been in a lot of pretty critically acclaimed games. I mean, you're both in Wuthering Waves. You're both in that one, I know for sure. Shai, you've been in a few things. I think, God, one of you is in FoamStars, and I don't remember.

That's Shai, yeah. And then obviously, you know, Expedition 33, Wuthering Waves, lots of, lots of things for Keeble. I will say, I was very pleasantly surprised because I don't usually dive into, like, who voices characters super often, because I usually don't have that kind of time. But I will say you both played two characters I actually really enjoyed, in two games I really enjoyed. And Mr. Keeble, you voiced a small character in Cairn, which I really loved that game.

And yeah, and Shai, you did Menolias in Prince of Persia, The Lost Crown, which I'm a huge PoP fan. I'm one of those weirdos who got obsessed with it as a kid and just couldn't get away from it. But to get to the question, instead of nerding out that you guys voiced favorites of mine, was this project substantially different, you would say, from some of the other kinds of things that you've done before now?

Rich Keeble: Well, for me, if you ignore the fact that I voiced something in the Lord of the Rings universe a few years ago, for me, it was different because voicing a well-known character, whereas I think most of the time I haven't done that. A little bit of extra pressure, but for me, I worked on this game, obviously, far less than Shai did. And I was kind of in and out, and I probably knew a lot less. I wasn't really sort of kept up to speed with what was going on a lot with the game.

So that was similar to other games. Expedition 33 has sort of spoiled me for being in the inner circle and being sent loads of information constantly, being taken out to dinner before we'd even done the thing; it just doesn't normally happen. But yeah, I think the biggest thing for me that was different was just renting, to use Shai's earlier adage.

Shai Matheson: Conroy's words.

Rich Keeble: Well, you made it your own there, Shai, that's why I think it's associated with you. You rented that out. Yeah, I was renting out this well-known character, which I don't normally do, but I don't know, it's different because you kind of already know sort of what it is, but you still don't know how it's gonna turn out. It's a weird one. I'm not articulating very well, but that's just because I don't speak very clearly. It's just who I am.

Shai Matheson: I think, yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. Going into a legacy character and one that people sort of have preconceived notions of is just a whole different thing from starting your own character. Even Menolias is in Prince of Persia, but he doesn't exist before that, so I can do whatever I want, even though it's a pre-existing world.

And so again, we covered it. It's the expectation of what you should sound like, but it's also being aware of the world. So, honestly, most games we do, we don't know much about. I think maybe Expedition was a little different because you didn't have a sort of grasp of the whole piece, but most games, we don't know. We come in, we do lines out of sync and out of order. We don't know what's happening in the rest of the story, and we sort of find out when it's out what it's all about and who the character is.

Sometimes I watch stuff back, and I go, "Oh, that's who the character is that I was playing." But with this, you know, who doesn't know Batman, right? So, you kind of know the world. Obviously, I know it in a little bit more detail because I'm a big fan of it, but you just come in. It's an advantage because you come in with so much knowledge and so much sort of backstory that you don't have to go and work hard at creating. You sort of have the backstory. Everyone knows it.

But on the other hand, there is all that expectation. And actually, how do I avoid playing the Batman from that story or from that film when I'm supposed to play the Batman that TT Games has created and wants to tell the story of? And so another doozy for you to transcribe there.

Q. I love it. This is perfect. This is the kind of conversation I always like to have.

Shai Matheson: You know, I actually based Menolias on Ben Starr, who is a co-star of Rich. They wanted a certain type of voice and a certain accent, and I called Ben and said, I think I'm going to do your voice in this game. Is that okay? Knock yourself out. And then I tried to sort of do Ben Starr. And he ended up sounding a bit different.

Past Performances

Q. Still a great performance. Awesome. Okay, so we've gotten a little more specific. So I have two individual questions, one for each of you. So, Shai, this is your first time, as far as I'm aware. I could be wrong. Something may not have been on the page I was looking at. This is your first time voicing a sort of main character role throughout what is a particularly long game. So, were there any interesting stories or any kind of problems you ran into while you were voicing Batman?

Shai Matheson: I played a character called Serenoa in Triangle Strategy, and he's the protagonist of that story.

Q. Wait, was that on IMDb? Was it listed on IMDb?

Shai Matheson: It's there. It's there, Shane.

Rich Keeble: I sometimes go in and vandalize Shai's IMDb. Just delete random things.

Shai Matheson: It's been removed by whom? Yeah, it's the DLC that we never expected. Bringing back the credits to my IMDb. No, but look, you're not supposed to know that. So that was my first proper lead in a game, but I'll tell you this, and I think I probably did even more hours on that one. But I had no idea what was happening in the game because, again, it wasn't very linear. The whole point of that game was the choice between two things. And so it could go either and every way possible. And so, yeah, I kind of didn't have the grasp.

And I was wondering, like, because it was my first lead, I was like, do I need to know the whole story of the thing? Am I supposed to lead this? But actually, it wasn't needed of me. And I did feel like with this one, there's a lot more riding on who my character will be and my part of the story. And I have to sort of hold it, both as like in my performance and then sort of later on, maybe as like the main character in terms of like the company of actors that does the game.

And because it does feel like, you know, you're the recognizable face, not Shai, but Batman, the recognizable face of that game. So, yeah, so it definitely was. And again, you know, yes, Serenoa was more hours and a more complicated story in some ways. But there wasn't the pressure of being such a familiar, recognizable character that Batman is. So it's not even being the main character in the game. It's sort of being a character that everyone knows and has an opinion about, and sort of carrying that sort of weight as well.

Q. Awesome. I must have just passed right over it because I actually was a big Triangle Strategy fan when it came out. I know I'm so mad at myself because now I can hear it, and I'm like, no shot. I did not connect those dots in any way. That's awesome. No, that's a great answer. So thank you so much for that.

Shai Matheson: I also played Horace the horse in Everybody One-Two Switch. It flopped.

Q. Yeah, no, it was not received well, I know that one for sure.

Shai Matheson: Let's not talk about that. It doesn't exist.

Rich Keeble: Don't want to talk about games that flopped, do we, Shai? Hey, I never bring up games.

Q. OK, so now we are on to Mr. Keeble. We have your personal question, which is very similar. But I obviously have to work it in because, you know, it's game of the year. But you are definitely, I think, the overall more tenured voice actor. I'm not sure about hours or seasons or things like that. I could just go based on what I saw. I know you do a lot of you both do a lot of regular acting and a lot of voice acting.

But your voice, you know, everyone's favorite de-feeter, Monoco, and I was really curious, kind of because those are two pretty major roles, they're pretty different. But I was kind of curious about your sort of personal draw from where those differences came from, and maybe how you either delivered that performance or sort of went about doing the performance.

Rich Keeble: The performance of Monoco versus Two-Face.

Q. Or Deathstroke, you are both.

Rich Keeble: It's Deadstroke, I mean, Deathstroke.

Shai Matheson: More like Heatstroke today.

Rich Keeble: Well, I suppose the difference is with Lego Batman, they gave me this specific reference. It was very Tommy Lee Jones. But I didn't want to do just a Tommy Lee Jones impersonation. And I was aware that maybe his interpretation isn't the favorite of Two-Face performances. So, I kind of did my own research and kind of brought my own thing to it.

But with Monoco. Monoco (said in his deeper Monoco voice). It was literally just, well, there was a picture of him, and it said he was a gestral. This is a crocheted version of him for the readers. Rich Keeble is holding up another gift from a wonderful fan. With Monoco, they just said they said he was a gestral and a little tiny bit of backstory. And it just said I think it said rich, deep, booming voice.

And I thought, well, my name is rich, so that's good. I think with Monoco, I was very, very fortunate as to how that came about, because, as you very graciously say, you know, I have done a lot of different acting. I mean, in the UK, I've done a lot of comedy TV stuff.

And I think my experience of that really helped with how I approached the Monoco audition, because, you know, they said deep, booming voice. And, you know, I've done loads of voices sort of down there, or whatever, in auditions or playing demons and other sorts of things. So I thought, well, that's the deepest voice I can sort of do and maintain.

But when the sides came through, you know, the selection of scripts, it was quite funny. And for those familiar with Expedition 33, it was literally the scene where you meet Monoco. So this is all back and forth with Ben Starr.

Oh, yeah, that's true. There will be a lot of fighting. Count me in then.

All that. And it was just really, really funny. It was unusual to have that type of character with that type of script. And yeah, I just made a call. It just felt like I didn't want to do too much with it. Don't overplay it. You know, as if you're doing an on-camera performance, you let the script do the talking. And the situation is funny, how it arises. You don't need to try to be funny.

And that's yeah, they liked that. And then that's how we did the whole thing, really. So, yeah, it was a video game experience and comedy experience that kind of came together in a wonderful serendipity, if that's the right word. So, two quite different approaches. And obviously, I mean, Monoco, I'm just doing my own voice, but it's a lot deeper. Whereas Two-Face, I'm doing, well, at least trying to do an American accent. Does that answer the question? Sorry, I think I've rambled.

Q. No, I think it's perfect. I love it. That was great. It was detailed. I can't complain about it. I mean, I'll complain about writing it later.

Rich Keeble: Oh, yeah, well, that's when we're all talking over each other all the time. Aye Shai? Yeah, having banter.

Favorite Lines and Characters

Q. The last few are all kind of more for funsies. But do you guys have any favorite personal lines from the game, either your own or somebody else's, that you really enjoyed?

Shai Matheson: Oh, it's so hard. I kind of change my mind every day about my favorite line, which I guess is a good thing because there's a lot to choose from. I really love a bit where we're in the penguin's lair, and there's one of the penguins, duck boats, and it explodes.

And Batman goes, "Duck Boat. Noooo." I love that. There's a stupid line in it that goes. Stupid as in silly. Oh, God, "it's a bat cave, not a bed and breakfast," which I think is cute. And everyone loves abs, which we all know is true.

Rich Keeble: Yeah, I've got abs. Obviously, they're just very buried. They're less exposed than Shia's are. Would you like me to tell you my favorite line from the game?

Shai Matheson: Yeah, my favorite line of yours. My line that you love the most.

Rich Keeble: OK, it's no distractions, Batman. I'm really busy beating up strangers. I might be getting the two games confused.

Shai Matheson: Is that Monoco? Yeah, exactly.

Rich Keeble: "Shall we flip for it?" I like that one. "Fortune smiles on you today, Batman."

Q. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think a lot of the lines are great. There are obviously some of them that are pulled from great media. So, lots to work with there. Oh, yeah. Another little kind of fun one. Since you guys are both kind of doing your own research into the D.C., the greater D.C. universe, and Batman as a whole. If you guys had to pick a favorite Batman character, Batman adjacent, I guess we'll open it up as wide as we can, because why not make it that much harder? Whether it's a hero, a villain, or something in between. Who would it be and why?

Shai Matheson: Should I start with this one?

Rich Keeble: Why don't you start with this one? And then I'll sort of copy you.

Shai Matheson: Well, I mean, listen, it's its I'm not sure which version of answer you're after in a sense. So I'll explain why I'm saying that. My favorite character of all time in the Batman universe is Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman. And so I just, but I do think Catwoman is an amazing character in general. But I think that portrayal is just so unbelievably iconic. Just everything about that. I think nowadays you might get an Oscar nomination for it because she does everything in it.

But I think back then, no one looked at these films. I mean, now they don't really either. But less snotty these days. Obviously, Heath Ledger won the Oscar for Joker. But I think Catwoman, and specifically that Catwoman, is just for me, it's just iconic, like, on a level if I didn't love Batman so much, she would completely tip the scales. But otherwise, more generally, I think the Joker is just a treat, because I love him in the same way as Batman, a little bit.

He can be anything and possibly even more so than Batman. And I think if we compare Batman to Superman, Batman can be so many different things, whereas Superman can be sort of usually around the same thing, whereas Batman could be so many things. And the Joker is even more so, like double that. Just what an amazing character to watch, to experience.

And then, you know, if I could choose to play another character, I definitely would like to have a go at the Joker, because just what an amazing playground to play in. To call back to the previous analysis, playground, if you're keeping up there.

Rich Keeble: He'll realize that when he's typing it all out laboriously, transcribing, trying to see who's talking over whom. Well, funnily enough, that's a great answer, Shai. It's great.

Shai Matheson: Thank you so much, Rich.

Rich Keeble: I think a lot of teenage boys would appreciate Catwoman as well from that sort of that time. Julie Newmar as well in the 60s, in the 60s show. So I was actually genuinely before you went before you said Joker, I was actually going to say the Joker, because even though I'm really enjoying delving into Two-Face. He wasn't in the original Batman show, whereas the Joker was, and I loved that portrayal with his, you know, his mustache covered up with makeup.

And because of well, because of our age and where we grew up, I mean, that original Keaton film was such a massive deal at the time. It's hard to imagine now. But, you know, obviously, there were one or two Batman films with Adam West? I can't remember whether there's one or two. The surfboard stuff, isn't it? Is that the one? Is that the one we're trying to get rid of the bomb as well? So great that portrayal reminds me.

I'm digressing slightly, but I recently watched Batman versus Two-Face, an animated show which not many people have actually seen. And it's got Adam West back, along with Julie Newmar, and William Shatner, who plays Two-Face. And that's good. It's actually really good. It's in the 60s universe, but it was done. I think it might be the last thing that Adam West did before he died.

But yes, I'm Jack Nicholson was obviously a massive movie star as well. And at that time, and for him playing the Joker, it was just such a cultural thing. You know, Jack Nicholson's Joker with, you know, the clever makeup and everything. Everything about it was groundbreaking. And I mean, obviously, he did an amazing job. But I think for me growing up around that time, there hadn't been any Batman.

Obviously, the series. But in terms of live-action films, the 89 film was such a massive deal. And Jack Nicholson is that Joker, and I think he's a great portrayal. And yeah, that character has so many different origin stories, so many different ways of playing him. It's just an amazing character. So, no wonder he's still up there.

Q. 100 percent, I think a lot of people would definitely agree that the Joker is arguably, and it's always the Joker and Batman, you know, can't have one without the other. Those are good picks for both of you. Hey, you know what? You can have the same favorite character.

Shai Matheson: Jokes aside, I think, because we're actors and we were actors that like to be funny or whatever. It is just a gift for actors. So I think actors look at it in a way as well. Who wouldn't want to play the Joker because you get so much freedom to just try things out and go for it, which I don't think you get as much with other characters sometimes.

Q. That's probably true. I mean, I'm not an actor, sadly.

Shai Matheson: Well, then you have to believe us.

I do. I have to take you at your word. Who would have thought? I have one last question. We're way over time. And the meeting is running out.

Shai Matheson: Just more time for me and Rich to hang out together. So you're fine.

Honestly, you guys could just spend an hour talking about nonsense. And I think I'd love it.

Shai Matheson: We have. Yeah.

Rich Keeble: And we will continue to do so.

Changing the Script with Funny Moments

Q. Good. Keep it up. So my last question, open-world games like this have a lot of barks and smaller conversations that happen, while you're traveling, things like that. Typically, when I talk with voice actors, I do have a background in game design and narrative writing. So I do kind of know some of how it all works.

But one thing I'm always really curious about is when actors manage to add in their own sort of lines. I think ad-libbing stuff is fascinating, or making a change where you sometimes feel like you might know the character a little bit better is a really interesting part of the whole process.

I'm always really curious about whether there was anything that you guys remember that you managed to get them to change, or maybe something that you felt like needed to change and just went for it in the booth, and then got away with it?

Shai Matheson: I'll say that, like, this sounds so fake, but I genuinely mean it, the writers and the writing in this game are so good that it genuinely seldom needed any sort of change, like the only times it needed to change. And also because it pulls so much from other material that it is almost always a reference to something.

And also, as you know, Shane, like with games, it's harder to improvise because everything has a reason, right? So it has to serve a purpose, and we can't really change the choice in the tree. But yeah, but it was so well written, and everyone who worked on it was such a fan of the IP that it just worked. And we had amazing writers. So I think the only things that ever changed were functional.

And like, oh, what if we said it like that? And actually, that could be funny because it would spur him on to say the next line, but really tiny little changes and very rare things that help say the line in a more sort of smooth way, because writers write it and hear it in their heads. And that is what I said, oh, my God, transcribe that. And I just had a brain fart.

Rich Keeble: Just make up something coherent. I know you can.

Shai Matheson: If Rich could reword my answer.

Rich Keeble: I imagine what Shai meant to say was...

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Shai Matheson: And unfortunately, Rich, we don't have time for your answer. No. Anyway, I think I can't actually remember. I can't actually remember the big lines that I changed. I'm sure I did, because I do remember offering a few things. I probably should have been a better person and written things down and journaled the whole thing.

But I didn't have time. I was paid to do voices rather than go. Hang on, guys. Just write this amazing line I just added to the game. Anyway, what a long answer that said absolutely nothing.

Rich Keeble: I think you did, because I was concerned. I mean, obviously, there are technical limitations as to how long a line has to be in terms of the audio file or whatever. But yeah, most of the time, if it's written well and this game certainly was, there's not really any need to redo anything. So I would back up what Shai says there.

And a lot of games I've worked on, I mean, I don't want to mention Expedition 33 again, but a lot of people say, "Oh, did you improvise that or whatever?" And it's just like, no, it was all written. It was all really well written. Occasionally, when you're doing a wild line like there's something in the game, they might get to improvise something. But you don't know if they used it or not, a lot of the time, because you record so much. And as Shai says, you're kind of cracking on and getting it done.

You just don't know. The only thing I can remember doing, I think, is my famous pizza. I say, famous pizza deliveryman.

Shai Matheson: I was going to mention that, let me do it. Let me do it. I want to do it. I want to be your pizza guy, please. Pizza for Mr. P. N. Guin, extra anchovies.

Rich Keeble: Very good. Very good indeed. Yeah, I mean, I think that was a bold choice that I made. And I think some of the team actually weren't too happy with. But it ended up in the final game just because we thought that was funny. I think they wanted something more generic. But I just thought, let's do the sort of breaking voice Simpsons character. I think I used to start off by saying, Mr. Simpson.

Yeah, sometimes you do get accidental things where you go. It would be funny if we said this instead. And actually, it is funny. And then they go, "Oh, yeah, let's say it instead." But it really is only because the base is so good that you kind of go, oh, we got this. It's that thing. It's the play element, which is like, what if we did this? What if we did this? And that's amazing.

And they were always respectful. And the only times that I would ever hear a no in that sense would be, oh, it doesn't work because the story had to go a certain it would just not work for the story. And also, obviously, we're doing a Lego game. There are a lot of restrictions on that front, because it has to be family-friendly and more neutral.

Q. I definitely get it. I still think it's super interesting just to hear about even a little because, as a writer, I think it's always like I had this discussion with, oh, no, I've totally forgotten her name. It's gone. It's not in my brain anymore. She's the alternate actress. She was just nominated for a BAFTA.

Shai Matheson: For what game?

Split fiction.

Shai Matheson: Oh, Kaja Chan. Yes.

Oh, my God. My brain. I don't know why that was not happening.

Shai Matheson: What a wonderful game. What a wonderful actress. She's also in Wuthering Waves.

Q. Yes. You're all in Wuthering Waves at this point. But she and I had a great conversation about that, where it was really interesting because, from a writing perspective, it's always really nice to have someone understand a character to a point where they feel like they can contribute something worthwhile about that character.

I think you guys did a great job. We are legitimately almost out of time because the meeting will end, and I don't have the fancy version. But yeah, so that's all the questions I have personally for you guys.

Shai Matheson: We didn't prepare any for you, Shane.

Rich Keeble: Well, other than, you know, who's your favorite character in Expedition 33? And why is it Monoco?

Q. Honestly, it's always Monaco. My favorite thing about Monoco was while I was playing it. And it's the dumb thing that I think everybody kind of figures out as they play, when he's like, I need feet. And you're like, "Why do you need feet? That doesn't add up. What is this weird fetish?" And then I put it together eventually. Because he literally needs to defeat them. I'm so dumb. But it was so great. Monoco is definitely a phenomenally written character.

Shai Matheson: Rich really pulled off an acting feat in that game. For the benefit of the reader, Rich is open-mouthed. I like this character, Monoco, who has no mouth.

Has no mouth. Or face.

Rich Keeble: Or face. Yeah, that's great. I'm glad you enjoy it. Monoco is the gift that keeps on giving. It's funny, the whole feet thing, because I've been, as I say, I've been lucky to do a lot of fan conventions recently. And I usually get a handler who is kind of with me when I'm there.

I'm not doing a quote. And I'm just going, "My, what lovely feet." And people ask, "Can you write the feet one?" While I'm always in between, I'll explain this to you in a minute to this sort of 20-year-old handler. I'll explain the foot thing in a minute. And then it's usually halfway through. It's good.

He basically uses the feet and, you know. Oh, I thought it was, you know, yeah, I know what you thought it was. It's not that I promise. It's not weird. I mean, it is weird in a way, but it's just it is what it is.

This can be it can be weird and funny. Two things can be true.

Rich Keeble: Absolutely. 100 percent.

Well, we're just as we are just about out of time. I don't want to hold you guys up anymore. And I don't want the call to get disconnected without offering, you know, my immense gratitude for your time today. This has been honestly so, so great. Probably one of my favorite interviews I've ever done.

Shai Matheson: Thank you, Shane. It was really nice. And yeah, great questions. Nice to talk to you.

Rich Keeble: Yeah, it was really fun. Thank you.

Hopefully, we get to do this again sometime.

Shai Matheson: Well, what's the next game you and I are going to be in, Rich? I don't know. We have to get into a game together. OK, we'll workshop that. We'll give it to you.

Rich Keeble: More Wuthering Waves. Make Scar and Fenrico bring them together.